Healthy Wealthy & Wise Accountants

Heidi: 00:01

Welcome back to the Healthy, Wealthy, and Wise podcast. I am your host, Heidi Henderson, and today's guest is someone who truly embodies transformation and peak performance. And this is Dug McGurk. Doug's journey is nothing short of incredible. He started in the music industry where he contributed to multiple Grammy winning albums as a producer, an engineer, and a mixer.

Heidi: 00:26

When digital disruption reshaped the music landscape, Dug pivoted into personal and professional development, becoming a peak performance strategist for Tony Robbins and helping thousands of individuals break through their limitations and step into their greatness. His career didn't stop there. Doug has then scaled businesses, expanded addiction treatment centers, and worked with some of the biggest brands, including Honeywell, Pfizer, the US Army, the Air Force, Delta, and Engineered Tax Services. Today, he's an he's a today, he's an eclectic entrepreneur, a real estate investor, high level business strategist, and an elite super connector bridging the gaps between investors, entrepreneurs, and industry leaders. In today's episode, we're gonna dive into Doug's unique perspective on the current business environment, where he sees the biggest opportunities for professionals, and how business owners, CPAs, and entrepreneurs can adapt, innovate, and unlock unstoppable momentum.

Heidi: 01:31

We'll also talk about leadership, peak performance, and the power of building legendary relationships in today's fast changing world. And so without further ado, let's welcome Doug McGurk to the show. Doug, your career has been a really incredible evolution from doing Grammy winning music production to peak performance strategies and business leaders and investing, all of this stuff. Can you walk us through your journey? What led you to focus on business transformation leadership that obviously started somewhere else?

Heidi: 02:02

So I'd love to just, as a background for our listeners, tell us your story.

Dug McGuirk: 02:07

Alright. Well, thank you, by the way, for just for doing this and and putting putting your energy out there and and having an impact and making a difference because we all have something to add to each other's lives. And all it takes is for us to start doing it, and it starts to make that difference. So so thank you for that. So Yeah.

Dug McGuirk: 02:25

In a nutshell, I guess it it started out I grew up I wanted to rock. I wanted to be a rock star. My everyone in my family or at least everyone on my dad's side, every single one of them is doctorate of some sort, whether they're an actual doctor or one of them is a professor at MIT and was a Top Gun instructor. Everyone this was all these high achievers, and and I just I didn't get it. I I didn't get that that gene to educate myself, that that sort of typical education I didn't get.

Dug McGuirk: 02:54

But I loved people and I knew that I was destined for something as we all do. We all have that yearning inside. We all know we're capable of more. My models were a little out of whack. Excuse me.

Dug McGuirk: 03:06

So one day, I was probably like 16 or 17 years old. I was right now, was actually closer to 15. I came home one night. I probably shouldn't have been drinking, but I was, and I I little inebriated. I I say to my mother, I'm like, mom, I need your credit card.

Dug McGuirk: 03:23

And she's like, what for? I was like, the Tony Robbins. Because at the time, Tony Robbins was on the air, like, twenty four hours a day through his infomercials. That was Yeah. He was doing his personal power infomercials.

Dug McGuirk: 03:36

So something about what he was saying, I resonated. I said, I I get this. So I asked my mom for a credit card. She asked for what, and then she I told her, well, it's Tony Robbins, this personal power thing, and she goes, oh, we have that. What?

Dug McGuirk: 03:49

I got it, and it was it was still wrapped. Like, she never opened it. It was still, like, in the cellophane. I'm a date myself here. It was cassettes.

Dug McGuirk: 03:57

Yeah. So I started listening to them, and I started to really sort of get what he was talking about. What he talked about in many respects was modeling. So you model the most successful people, you do what they do, you'll get their results. So music was what I wanted to do.

Dug McGuirk: 04:15

So I after listening to all that and I started doing some research and my dad would have paid for college. As a matter of fact, I went to one day of college and I realized that that was not for me. And I started looking into the music school. And what I found was that the most successful people in the music industry didn't necessarily go to school for it. They learned through modeling.

Dug McGuirk: 04:39

They learned through interning. They learned just by doing it. And I was a I was an artist myself, and I was not getting the results that I wanted when I would make my demos or records at a young age. So I said, I gotta learn how to do this. Cool.

Dug McGuirk: 04:54

I was like, ah, do I have to look into it in order to be successful? School is not necessarily the way to go. It's just doing it. So I ended up getting a job. I I knocked on a local studio, which I'd been to before.

Dug McGuirk: 05:05

There's a whole other story around that with East Snyder and and so forth. But I I went to that studio, knocked on the door, and basically said, hey, I'll I'll work here for nothing. Intern and I'll work my way up till you start paying me. And they said, great. You know, interns.

Dug McGuirk: 05:20

That's they're used to that. That was kinda new to me. I didn't really quite understand what was what that was all about. So essentially from ten to six, I was an intern. And what that meant was I was making coffee, running for lunch, cutting tape, soldering wires, being a runner for, you know, everyone's needs.

Heidi: 05:36

And how how old were you at that point? Nice. Okay.

Dug McGuirk: 05:41

Yeah. Was yeah. Because because after after high school, I I worked as I I was doing stuff. I did I was like a store detective, and then I was a private investigator. And then that I like, that I didn't like because I was I mean, I was I love people.

Dug McGuirk: 05:56

And doing that, I was like, ugh, I think that's not really my my bag. And I mean, I was still

Heidi: 06:00

You're like, feel like I don't wanna be sneaking around the back alleys.

Dug McGuirk: 06:03

Yeah. Yeah. It was just it was it not it was in my heart's desire. So my friend and I drove around the country and camped our way around The United States for a summer where I re presented myself. I listened to Tony again, and I was like, that's it.

Dug McGuirk: 06:16

That's what I'm doing. And I I that's what I did. I knocked on the door, got the gig. And then so from ten to six, I would do that. And then from six till whenever the session was over, I would just stay in the room and hang out and learn and model and just, you know, just observe and start picking up what is what are the successful people doing?

Dug McGuirk: 06:36

And this was a world renowned studio, so we were making big records. Like, you know, these weren't like, it wasn't like a little back alley studio. We were it was a Grammy winning studio. So then what I would do is after the studio was the sessions were over, I would then start applying what I was learning real time. So I would start playing with the patches, playing with the gear, start recording things, recording my own stuff, mixing their you know, stuff that with the records we were making, and effectively worked my way up to staff producer, and I was making all the rock records, and we were making we were winning Grammys with Celine Dion and J Lo and things of that nature.

Dug McGuirk: 07:13

I had a a deal as well on A and M, and then A and M folded. Because the peak of my career is when Napster came out. Remember Napster?

Heidi: 07:21

Yep. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Dug McGuirk: 07:22

So the very technology that created Napster, that ability to do digital audio

Heidi: 07:30

Mhmm.

Dug McGuirk: 07:30

Is what was happening in in the creation of music where we were Pro Tools was and still is one of the the primary there are other companies now, but that you didn't need the big studio anymore. You didn't need all the racks of gear. You could do so much essentially in your house, and that was we when we have, you know, the term industry disruptor, you know, like we have now with, like, Uber and Airbnb's and all that, and it happened considerably slower compared to what's happening now with AI, And I think we've learned, you know, from those transactions. So the the technology that created Napster also interrupted the way studios were functioning. So bands didn't need the big studio.

Dug McGuirk: 08:15

So the writing for me was on the wall when there was a an artist that I was a producer of, and we would have a budget of, you know, anywhere from, like, I think the first record we did with them was, 300,000. We'd use that in the studio, spend time in the studio writing. That was also it it would included other things. But of that, I would get a decent portion, you know, good And that would be my fee, and then I get points and all that. But the they got dropped, and the manager went back and was like, please, please, you know, can we please like, what do we need to do?

Dug McGuirk: 08:46

And, you know, like, I just give us a chance. This was, you know, the timing, whatever. And they said, okay. Tell you what, we're going to we'll we'll give you 50,000. We're not giving you 300, we're giving you 50.

Dug McGuirk: 08:58

Don't hire Doug because that's what I got. I would get that or more. So don't hire Doug, don't hire anybody, just go out and buy a Pro Tools system, and make the record yourself and just, you know, when we feel we've got a record that we can get behind, then we'll release it. Got it. And the challenge with something like that is a lot of times the artists are so prolific anyway.

Dug McGuirk: 09:24

They loved being able to play at home and automate their punches and and play around. It was like another extension of their creativities, and since they didn't need someone in the studio, they didn't need a big room, they didn't need all the gear because it was all in the box, that was a no brainer and very easy for them. So I was like, okay. I you know, you can't beat them, join them. I I can't even join this.

Dug McGuirk: 09:46

You know, I mean, I have a studio in my house and I could do some stuff, but I really need to reinvent. At the same time, I was also going through marital challenges, and then I went to improve. I'm a master practitioner and trainer of neuro linguistic programming Oh, wow. NLP.

Heidi: 10:03

Okay.

Dug McGuirk: 10:04

And in a I I learned that because my I love people, but my relationship with my now ex wife was suffering, and I was like, gotta take personal responsibility. Just like when I did the record, when I got into producing records, I did it because what I was doing wasn't getting the results I wanted. So I said, I gotta learn how to either do it myself or communicate what it is I want and understand what they're doing. Kinda like what what you guys do, you know, from a a tax perspective, it's really helpful when someone has a little understanding so they could speak your language and time is not lost on explanation where, you know, you could get into a groove of, okay, I I understand where we're going, what you're doing. You're the expert.

Dug McGuirk: 10:48

I just have some ideas. How can we do this? And and then there's great synergy.

Heidi: 10:53

Yeah. That's you know, that's a huge point because, as as we maybe we can talk about this later is, like, getting specialized because I think that's one thing that has been really interesting is this marriage between, like, a real estate versus tax, and it gets so complex. And the the lingo and the tick the typical language that you're speaking in the real estate investing, real estate world is so different than, you know, what accountants and tax people are are talking about. And oftentimes, professionals do a poor job of of connecting the bridge and understanding that lingo. So anyway, that's yeah.

Heidi: 11:28

That's a great point.

Dug McGuirk: 11:30

And what brings us to ultimately in in what you're doing here with the podcast and and how communication has become finally so important because the quality of our lives is the quality of our relationships. The quality of our relationships is the quality of our communication. Business and professional. I mean, our impersonal. So the more effective we can be at communicating, the more effective we'll be at supporting whatever transformation we're looking to create, whether it be personal or professional.

Dug McGuirk: 11:59

So the idea behind the that thought was going out and taking responsibility, learning new things. So I got into NLP because I wanted to be a better communicator on all levels, and it helped me professionally as well because it helped me get the most out of the artists and help them really access their their Internet because I that was me. Like, I got it. Like, I no one understood what I was trying to say, so I learned how communicate it and learned how to pull it out. So then I went to I I when I was having challenges with my my my marriage and the industry was changing, and I was like, I gotta reinvent here.

Dug McGuirk: 12:32

Mhmm. I I dove real deep into personal development, and got everything. So I just went nuts on eBay, and I just bought every personal development, everything Tony ever did and beyond. And then this thing pops up for Unleash the Power Within, which is now you may know is Tony's signature, like, entrance event. I didn't know I didn't know about seminars.

Dug McGuirk: 12:52

All I did was I lived in the studio or I lived on the road as a as an artist. I I didn't I know about conferences or seminars. So I go to Tony's UPW, Unleash Power Within, and there's like 3,000 people in New Jersey, and I'm blown away. Like, I'm overwhelmed, blown away going, what is this? This is better than a concert.

Dug McGuirk: 13:14

The first night, we do a fire walk. And the whole weekend is just you know, it's amazing. I'm like, this is better than a concert. People are actually leaving better than they were when they arrived. They're having an incredible entertaining and educational experience.

Dug McGuirk: 13:29

They're connecting. They're just having a blast. There's tons of music and lights. Like, it's a concert, but instead of a band, it's a speaker, and it was Tony. And I was like, oh my gosh.

Dug McGuirk: 13:42

This this is what I'm gonna do. Like, I gotta learn how to do this because this is like like entertainment. Right? You're still on stage. You're still and I was already starting to speak at music conferences, and I was coaching and helping bands, monetize their know, they didn't why they didn't need a record company and and so forth.

Dug McGuirk: 13:59

So I already had some speaking experience, but this was next level. Was like, this is this is what I gotta do. So I ended up, becoming friends with the, the guy who worked for Tony, was Tony's right hand man for, like, a decade So when Tony was at the beginning, I learned, you know, even more from him and from others, and it was just it was a a big deal. But I then went on the road with Tony as a national speaker and trainer.

Heidi: 14:29

Wow. So That's amazing.

Dug McGuirk: 14:32

Yeah. So so I spent

Heidi: 14:33

What what year was that?

Dug McGuirk: 14:35

That was o six. Six. Okay.

Heidi: 14:38

Amazing. So Well well, is it wrong to ask you how old you were at that point?

Dug McGuirk: 14:42

I'm, like, following your side right 36.

Heidi: 14:45

Okay. Nice. That's amazing. Okay.

Dug McGuirk: 14:48

Yeah. So, you know, interesting just I'll quickly share the the story on how I got the gig just because it's relevant to entrepreneurs. Because what it was what we all know is is entrepreneurs, the owners and so forth is you can't sit on your laurels. You've got to be resilient, stay focused, and, you know, the fortune's in the follow-up. Mhmm.

Dug McGuirk: 15:15

So without getting into holes, you know, weeds on how I I found out about it, doesn't matter. I sent in my I I figured out how to make a resume because I never had a resume. I had a discography. So I I sent that in and the HR person calls me back and she says, okay, Doug, just, this is great. Thank you.

Dug McGuirk: 15:32

I gotta let you know that we're going through some transitions here at the company. The the VP of sales and marketing, they're leaving. We're bringing in someone new, and so it's it's gonna it it's probably gonna be a while, but you're you're you're in the queue. It's just it's I'm just letting you know. We're we're we're in transition.

Dug McGuirk: 15:51

I don't know when it's gonna be, but it's it's gonna be it could be a couple months even. I don't know.

Heidi: 15:56

Mhmm.

Dug McGuirk: 15:56

I said, that's great. Her name was Joanne. I said, Joanne, just wanna let you know, I appreciate you, and I'm gonna call every Friday, and I'm gonna leave a story or a joke or something. And I know you're not gonna know it's me because you'll be able to see you know, I know you could you know, you have the caller ID so you don't have to pick up. I'm just letting you know I'm gonna do that.

Dug McGuirk: 16:16

And I did. Every Friday, I called, and I left a joke or a story or an anecdote or, you know, some point of connection. Wow. That's amazing. And I did that for about I think it was two or three months.

Dug McGuirk: 16:29

And then I started going through the interview process, and I got stopped, like, kinda near the end. Like, there was one like, I think it was this last person, and then the next was the new VP of of sales and marketing. And I got stopped. And there were basically, Joanne called me and said, look. I just wanna let you know that, you know, this this person said, you know, they they were gonna pass on you because you already had a business and you you have the you know, you do the music and all that.

Dug McGuirk: 16:57

They thought it'd be a conflict and and they just figured it was, you know, it was not an excuse. How you know, like, how serious are you? I said, a % serious. Like, this is a dream. What are you talking about?

Dug McGuirk: 17:06

She's like, okay. Good. So I just wanna let you know I took a stand for you, and I said that you're the only one who did what they said they were going to do, that you were persistent, you were resilient. You called every Friday and left a message or a story like you said you were gonna do, and that's exactly the kind of perseverance and resilience and, you know, like, just go just go for it attitude this position needs. So I pushed you through.

Dug McGuirk: 17:32

I overrode that. So you're you're you now have your interview with the the VP and then the whatever you had to take some more tests and and what have you.

Heidi: 17:41

But Wow. That's amazing.

Dug McGuirk: 17:43

So, yeah, it's just one of those things where sometimes we forget these little things. And then my mentor, I'll share quickly how this persistence works. My mentor, unfortunately, is no longer, with us. He was the money behind the Backstreet Boys and NSYNC. He wasn't Lou Pearlman.

Dug McGuirk: 17:58

He was the money behind Lou Pearlman. And I had called him at the beginning of, you know, like, I don't remember what year it was. I was wondering if you're telling no. So, I mean, it's still in music. I called him.

Dug McGuirk: 18:07

I was like, I was just trying to figure out what I wanted to do, maybe make some transitions. And I call him up. Doesn't matter how I got his number. Call him up, and he's like I said, hey, Eric. How you doing?

Dug McGuirk: 18:18

My name is Doug McGurkin. You know, I'd love to meet you. And so he's like, hey, Doug. Do you see what's going on in the market right now? I was like, no.

Dug McGuirk: 18:24

He's I gotta go. Click. Jeez. I was like, oh. And I didn't call.

Dug McGuirk: 18:30

Like, for years, I didn't call. Wow. And then the the peanut butter hit the fan and it was time I was like, I gotta figure out what's next. So I called him back. And I didn't tell him that it was me, that he had hung up, that I bothered him or whatever that years ago.

Dug McGuirk: 18:47

I told him later, I just got back it's kind of back on the call. And he took the call, and we booked a meeting. And then, like, a week before it was, like, a month away. And, like, a week before, a couple days before, he calls me and cancels.

Heidi: 19:00

Like, how'd it Shoot.

Dug McGuirk: 19:03

So what did I do? Picked up the phone again, booked it again. It was another month. Couple days before, calls me and cancels. It's around six times.

Dug McGuirk: 19:15

Six months he canceled on me. Every time. Till finally, he didn't cancel. So I show up to his Upper East Side apartment. He owned the entire floor overlooking the 50 Ninth Street Bridge.

Dug McGuirk: 19:28

Beautiful, beautiful place. And he I walk in, and he's on the phone, and he waves me in. He sits he's sitting at a, you know, his kitchen table, and he he's on on the computer and on the phone, and then he takes the newspaper and he pushes it towards me, and he taps it, and it goes like that. And then he goes like this. I was like, okay.

Dug McGuirk: 19:47

So he's telling me whatever's in this paper has to do with his phone call. Okay. So I start reading it, and it is about his property, his last it was, like, 600 acres of beachfront property in Mexico that had just been stolen by the son of the president of Mexico, and he was on the phone with the state department figuring out how they were gonna get their his land back. Like, okay, it's crazy. So then he hangs up the phone and he goes, thanks for coming.

Dug McGuirk: 20:16

Goes, Doug, do you know why you're here? I was like, what what do you mean? Like, what's my agenda? He's like, no. Do you know why I let you in?

Dug McGuirk: 20:25

And I was like, no, actually. He goes, I owed it to you. He's like, he goes, you didn't give up. You every time I canceled I wasn't canceling to test you. I wasn't canceling like, I wasn't it wasn't purposeful.

Dug McGuirk: 20:41

It's my life is very busy. I got a lot going on. And you just kept calling, and you were very pleasant and professional about it. You never you just you just kept on it. And I felt I owed it to you because that's the only kind of person that I associate with anyway.

Dug McGuirk: 20:58

Wow. And then we became very good friends. I helped him raise about a million dollars for his company, and and it was it was a a beautiful relationship. Unfortunately, he, he ended up passing away. He died in a car accident, but, Jeez.

Dug McGuirk: 21:11

It just another sort of testament to what it like, that perseverance, like, how important it is just to stay on path and and keep making the calls and follow-up and don't take it personally if someone can't make it or, you know, what have you, because everyone's got their own life. There's there's almost always, it's not what you think it is. Almost always, you are not being rejected. You are not all that. As a matter of fact, almost always, the person that you were afraid to follow-up with is actually hoping you'll follow-up with them because they're so busy and they appreciate you staying on top of it.

Heidi: 21:48

Yeah. You know what, Doug? That that right there is a concept that I feel like we could talk about for an hour. And it relates to all things in business, not necessarily just looking for a new job or connecting with new people. It's doing follow ups.

Heidi: 22:03

It's much of that stuff. And and me coming from accounting and shifting more into business development was incredibly painful. But one of the interesting stats in sales, you know, oh gosh. The, you know, the the scary scale salesperson type, mentality is the number of touches it typically takes for something to actually come to fruition, and it is is quite large. It's, you mean, 12 to 15 touches.

Heidi: 22:30

But interestingly enough, if you look at the percentage of people who continue to follow-up or show persistence, it is shocking. I wish I had the numbers in front of me. But it is something like, you know, a %, you know, we're doing one the first the first touch. You know, it's something like maybe 60% will do the second touch, and 20% will do the third touch. And as it

Dug McGuirk: 22:54

goes to

Heidi: 22:55

four, it's maybe one percent.

Dug McGuirk: 22:57

Mhmm.

Heidi: 22:57

And beyond that, even smaller. It's really shocking. And I think you you really hit it on the head because sometimes we have that fear, like, we're bothering someone. We're bugging someone. We're being annoying or it's about us, and someone's upset with that.

Heidi: 23:13

But, you know, we do that some of that coaching with our staff at times as well is you have to understand that this is a service. And, you know, sometimes I've dealt with people who were really feeling like they were pestering someone, but we're coming up on a tax deadline. And I said, it might feel like pestering, but it is in fact a service because people are busy. People forget. What's gonna happen is they're gonna forget until it's too late, and then they're gonna miss the deadline.

Heidi: 23:40

And so they're be like, why

Dug McGuirk: 23:41

didn't you remind me?

Heidi: 23:42

Right. It's gonna cost them $200,000. They're like, why didn't you remind me on that? You know? So it's exactly right.

Heidi: 23:48

Like, I think in terms of looking at business and what people can do, that persistence is is so tremendous. So anyway

Dug McGuirk: 23:56

Yeah. Well and also though, I I think that there's two two things to consider. One, what is your relationship with other people pestering or staying in contact with you? And because if you get annoyed by someone else, that's just, you know, now you're gonna be projecting and you're gonna think that other people are annoyed. But I I challenge people who do get annoyed.

Dug McGuirk: 24:18

There are people who are annoying that don't know when to stop. Yep. So it's not about the persistence. It's about the way that is coming across. Like, it's staying in touch and and pinging people and just checking in and doing that is very different than pressuring someone every time you talk.

Dug McGuirk: 24:39

And I think that's where the dance is and that's where elegance comes in and and a lot of the the work that I do with people around communication is that on how to connect with someone and build a deeper relationship without, like, coming across as like a stage five clinger. You or without because that could that it can happen. Like, we we've gotta develop our own sensory acuity and and kinda read the room and listen to the listening and and figure out, like, okay, are they receptive to this? Have I done it too much? You know, calling every day is probably different than checking in once or twice a month.

Dug McGuirk: 25:15

Like Yeah. And it it depends on it's all contextual in in what you're looking to accomplish. Mhmm. But also be mindful of how you're showing up. Are you showing up desperate and clingy?

Dug McGuirk: 25:26

Or are you showing up like, hey, just checking in. We have this going on. I don't wanna lose momentum. I wanna make sure we're on the same page. Where do we go from here?

Dug McGuirk: 25:36

Energy is very different than, like so I you know, we gotta get this done now because we don't get it done now. They don't know? And then they're like, oh, great. Like, this is

Heidi: 25:44

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I totally agree. So so back to you were then working with Tony Robbins.

Heidi: 25:51

So you went to work. So so where did things progress there in in your

Dug McGuirk: 25:55

So that yeah. That was like a so for understanding, like, people understand that all speaking is sales. Like, anyone who's up on stage speaking, they're selling something. And now the truth is, if we're honest, all of us are selling something, aren't So even if we're not in sales, but we're hanging out with, you know, our friends and one friend wants to go to Friday's, the other one wants to go and you wanna go to Chili's. I don't know why you wanna go to either, but that that just comes out either way.

Dug McGuirk: 26:26

If you went to Friday's, you were sold. If you went to Chili's, you sold. We're in the we're in the influence game. So if you have children, what are we doing? We are always finding a way to influence them.

Dug McGuirk: 26:38

We're getting their buy in. When we're in a company, we use that term. Let's get their buy in. Yeah. Right?

Dug McGuirk: 26:44

So we're always selling and stage speaking is no different. There's a training, and then there's some sort of offer to continue the training. So the gig I had with Tony was as a a national speaker peak performance strategist where I would go in and I would speak to a company of salespeople, of, you know, realtors. We we did a lot of realty. We did insurance, attorneys, network marketing sales, car sales.

Dug McGuirk: 27:11

Like, anything that had some form of sales attached to it that had meetings, we would go in and do an hour long training around some of Tony's concepts, which are based in NLP. And then at the end of it, make an offer to say, hey, if you love that, you love three days with us with Tony. So I did that and and basically that gig was it was really it was pretty it was just full commission sales. And what would happen is we get dropped off in a new city and have to spend three to five months in that city and have someone booking meetings, but also have to book my own. So I would have to, you know, network, go to networking events, go to door knocking, looking for, you know, the decision makers and offering this free one hour training to, to their team.

Dug McGuirk: 27:55

And then moved to a new city. So I lived in Milwaukee and Chicago and California, North and South California, New York, and Florida, and and that's how I ended up in Florida. Well Because my MO was, to your point, to the touches, one of the things that my experience as well when I first went to Tony to to UPW, I was overwhelmed. Like, I couldn't it was just so much. It was just blue like, literally mind blowing that there were things that I missed that I because I didn't I didn't even know what I was getting into.

Dug McGuirk: 28:22

So what I did was every city that I would live in, I would do a monthly meeting or weekly meetings, and I needed a place to hold them. And then I would do right before the event, everyone that bought a ticket, I would do a one day event for them so that they would be prepared. Just so they didn't be overwhelmed, and I I I give them a taste of the experience they'd be having. We didn't do a fire walk. We would eat fire and do a board break, and so we didn't it wasn't the whole thing, but it's a give them a taste.

Dug McGuirk: 28:51

Like, hey, this is this is like a little tiny like, this is your appetizer. It's really gonna get you excited and and have an understanding of what you're getting yourself into. So in Florida, a friend of mine was like, you know, I have a friend who I don't know much really sure what he does, but he's got an auditorium that holds a couple hundred people. I he's a Tony guy. I know he'd let you use it.

Dug McGuirk: 29:10

So he did. I used it, and he and his wife came to the event, and he was like, what's your plan with Tony? I'm like, what do you mean? He goes, we need this here in the treatment center. It was always a drug and alcohol treatment center.

Heidi: 29:25

Oh, okay.

Dug McGuirk: 29:26

And so he had in that one center, they would have like a 50 people living there. Wow. And we had that's why he had big auditorium.

Heidi: 29:35

Yeah. Okay.

Dug McGuirk: 29:36

And he's like, we need this for our clients and for our team. Like, he's a he who's a Tony guy, and and he's like, I I need someone to do all this because I'm trying to do it a little bit, but I'm this is not my thing. What do you wanna do? Could you wanna do this? And so I talked to Tony, and Tony is like, well, if you don't take the job, I'm gonna fire you.

Dug McGuirk: 29:55

Because he's he's like, you you're doing for me what I did for Jim Rohn, and if you don't take this opportunity, you're not growing. Like, we're doing this to make a difference. This is a population that needs the work. I'm kicking you out of the nest. So yeah.

Dug McGuirk: 30:11

Take it. So I did, and and my now wife, Heidi, she came on the road with me on a whole other story. And basically, we we were given the reins. Like, just infuse your stuff, and and we very quickly ended up running most of the program clinically. And I was running the sales and marketing and working with all the outside marketers and the sales team and the call center, teaching you know, working with them, training them on on communication and influence.

Dug McGuirk: 30:38

And then I would travel around the country, I would speak at all the conferences on recovery and the process, and Heidi and I created the family program, and we still we still do that. We still have the family program because people who struggle with addiction, they have resources. They have treatment centers. Families don't have as many resources. Right.

Dug McGuirk: 30:58

Still help the families. We're still helping people who are in those relationships that don't have the resources.

Heidi: 31:04

Yeah.

Dug McGuirk: 31:04

So we so we was at the treatment center, and then when we created that family program, then it was now back to intrapreneurship. So basically, we had a captive audience, but we built a business around family coaching, the seminars, and all that. We had a seminar every once a month, and we'd have anywhere from, you know, 30 to 80 family members at our center for a weekend with us. And then that we got that was a JV with the owner. And then just before COVID, unfortunately, we we'd grown up to three centers.

Dug McGuirk: 31:36

We had almost 250 employees when we started. We had, like, 80. And it was a it was a great company, but there was a lot happening in that space. Couple years before COVID around body brokering and and all these things, and Google shut down its marketing, and there was there was just a whole mess of issues. Insurance change they were paying.

Dug McGuirk: 31:58

There's a bunch of things going on that it just it made sense. We were clean with the stuff we were doing, but we also were kind of a we were isolated because we didn't work with a lot of other centers. We we didn't need to. We were kind of a premier center. Well, we were a premier center, but we we didn't there was no one else we really played with.

Dug McGuirk: 32:15

Got it. So because we again, it was also to stay stay, you know, clean. And, basically, it was a perfect storm, and the owner's like, you know what? I'm done. And he ended up closing the the center and just stayed he still does real estate, he does fantastic in in real estate.

Heidi: 32:32

Yeah. That's too bad, though. But before we move on from there, talk a little bit about, you know, in those programs with those families. I mean, I'm sure I'm assuming, you know, that you're doing a lot of this with people in treatment and also the support around those you know, their family members and people and the staff that are supporting people that are going through addiction or other physical problems. Share a little bit about what were some of the biggest takeaways, I guess, of what you guys were teaching and what you felt people needed the most.

Dug McGuirk: 33:04

Drugs and alcohol are not the problem. Never. Yep. And unfortunately, people believe that it is. The angle that we went was to help people create a life worth being sober for.

Dug McGuirk: 33:15

Wow. Because what would happen is if people didn't have a reason to stay sober, they would find reasons not to stay sober. And when someone's active in whatever it is, and by the way, this isn't just substances. This is, you know, the Internet is in the DSM five as a treatable addiction. So it's it goes even to that.

Dug McGuirk: 33:39

And I have a whole model around the behavioral experiences that we have that actually create the things that we know we shouldn't be doing but do because of the way it meets our needs. But Mhmm. What we would do is, like, recognize that if we don't create an alternative, the nature abhors a vacuum. So we know that oftentimes someone's smoking, they quit smoking, and then what do they do? Sometimes they end up eating.

Heidi: 34:05

Yep. It just converts to something different.

Dug McGuirk: 34:07

Right. You just swap addictions. Yeah. So when we have an understanding as to what what we are getting out of the drugs and alcohol or the Internet or the porn or the you know, I even go so far as to show addiction to states. Like, people, you know, we we call it, you know, clinical depression.

Dug McGuirk: 34:29

I'm not diagnosing or undiagnosing anybody. I have seen though that oftentimes there are people who are more addicted to the depression because of what they get from it. The secondary gains. They say they don't wanna be depressed, and yet that is a vehicle through which they get what's most important to them, which could be love and attention. It could be, you know, being the most depressed.

Dug McGuirk: 34:54

I'm clinically depressed. It becomes a label. It becomes an identity. So the the couple of things that we did is being your identity. Like, we we kinda flew in the face a little bit of AA, and AA is a fantastic program.

Dug McGuirk: 35:05

All successful people run that program whether they know it or not. It came from modeling. They just took successful people and said, how is it that you're doing that? How did you succeed at that? And they said, oh, here's, here's a pattern.

Dug McGuirk: 35:15

Uncovered a pattern and then said, let, you know, let's create a program. But one of the challenges that we found, and this is a lot of work we did is the AA process of identification as an addict. So I would ask our clients that would say, so what do addicts do? And what do you think the average person when you ask them, like, what do addicts do? What do they usually say?

Heidi: 35:37

I don't even know. I'm not sure. What would there be They

Dug McGuirk: 35:41

treat someone who struggles with addiction right I can't help it. Can't help They're helpless. What else? Yeah. What are some behaviors?

Dug McGuirk: 35:49

What are some things they do?

Heidi: 35:50

I mean, a lot of it's just very repetitive. It gets becomes a habit.

Dug McGuirk: 35:54

Right. And oftentimes, when we say, what do addicts do? What I'm looking to have someone search through through their mind is, what are some of the behaviors? Well, things we would hear are, well, they lie. They lie to get their drugs.

Dug McGuirk: 36:05

They steal to get their drugs. They use drugs. They manipulate. They and and all of these things that are not necessarily considered, like, very positive behaviors. So now if this person believes that addicts lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, use, they do all these non resourceful, not very sustainable behaviors that aren't really good for anybody, And then they say, hi.

Dug McGuirk: 36:36

I'm Doug, and I'm an addict. What they're really saying is, hi. I'm Doug. I lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, use drugs, all these terrible things. You wanna hang out?

Heidi: 36:49

Right. And and then all of a sudden, there's so much more social isolation, I'm sure from other people.

Dug McGuirk: 36:54

Well, right. And then they don't even wanna hang out with themselves because they're basically identifying in something that is not a resourceful, sustainable experience, but it's their identity. So then when they would relapse, they go, what'd you expect? I'm an addict. That's what addicts do.

Dug McGuirk: 37:12

Yeah. So a lot of the work that we we did and and do, by the way, this is not just for someone who who struggles with any form of addiction. This is this is a human condition is whenever we say I am, whatever follows that as an identity is really a a powerful piece because the strongest need in the human psychology is to be congruent with the way it identifies with itself. So what we would find as well is elderly or retirement, shall I say, there would be people in the treatment center and the the pattern would be, I was a lawyer. Well, and they identified as their career.

Dug McGuirk: 37:53

Once their career ended, who are they? Now they're lost, and now to find themselves, they start maybe doing some of the patterns that they had before, which actually at one time probably were fine. They were probably a social drinker or what have you. When they had a job, they had a reason because they were a lawyer. So now when they're not a lawyer anymore, what do they do?

Dug McGuirk: 38:16

They become, now I'm a drunk. I'm an addict or what have you. And it doesn't happen overnight, but when you when we lose our identity and a reason to do all the positive things for us, all the things that are going to the hard easy sometimes as well, you know, you, the discipline, the following up, all of those things, we could then lose our ability to get the ultimate result we want, which is that joy, that happiness that requires some form of effort that not everyone is used to doing because it came naturally when you had you had the guardrails or you you had the the passion around that.

Heidi: 38:49

So let's follow that track for a second because I think you're touching on something that's so interesting, and it's actually something been a major driver, a motivator for me in my life. My father was a corporate. He was a corp with a very, very, very large corporation worldwide. He'd been there for thirty six years. And after thirty six years, you know, he was very highly paid, had tons of vacation, lots benefits, and they did some major layoffs.

Heidi: 39:13

They could hire someone much younger for much cheaper. With no warning, he was laid off. And that was what he defined himself as. And my mom was a caretaker. She was a full time mother, but she also took care of her mother who happened to be an addict.

Heidi: 39:29

And so my my mother was a caretaker. And when she suddenly was not a caretaker anymore, kids grew up, her mom passed away. There was no one to take care of. And my dad was laid off at relatively 56 years old, but that was his identity. Mhmm.

Heidi: 39:47

And so what happened is they didn't necessarily become addicts per se. I mean, kind of kind of, actually. But but the way that it impacted me, and this is probably why I'm passionate in even doing something like this podcast, it's so important to me, and I want to encourage other people to have passions in life that give you and you say oh, what did you say earlier that just was so awesome? A life worth being sober for. And it's not just work.

Heidi: 40:19

And I think that's why having a healthy balance and having other things that you love to do are so vitally important as how we define ourselves. For me, that's been horses. And even when I was incredibly in a horrible financial situation, raising three kids, a single mom, I managed to make sure I still kept one of my horses the whole time no matter how hard it was because my mom had nothing else to live for. So when we moved away, she immediately had to go on Prozac and then ended up on other prescription medications. She had nothing to live for.

Heidi: 40:55

And so so my point in saying that is I do see with many professionals that when our career becomes our identity, it is also a bit of a form of addiction because we aren't really serving our deeper intrinsic needs of what feeds our soul and what makes us whole as human beings. So, you know, I know that's a little bit of a shift of going from really treating addiction, but I'd love to follow that track a little bit more with how how do you encourage people to find that balance and achieve that high level of success, the peak performance Mhmm. While finding a balance.

Dug McGuirk: 41:38

So one of the thing that's so true is because if we're only focused on the one thing, you know, it reminds me of so alright. I'll just use another example. You ever go to the gym and you see the guys at the gym who look like lollipops where they only do their upper body. Right? And they've got these giant arms.

Dug McGuirk: 41:55

Right? And then these little pin legs because they because they hate leg day. Yep. You know what I'm talking about. Right?

Dug McGuirk: 42:00

So Yep. Yeah. All they're doing is working one set of muscles. So they they're walking around like, okay, you know, I I I got that, but they're they don't have the legs. They don't have the calves.

Dug McGuirk: 42:09

They're they're, like, out of proportion because they're only focusing on one thing. Yeah. So what happens is with us is oftentimes, especially high achievers, they they will achieve tremendous amounts professionally, but then personally, their life is a is a wreck. They don't have healthy relationships with their spouse, with their children, with everything, with their friends because they're workaholics. Right?

Dug McGuirk: 42:33

That's the term. The addiction to it is the workaholic. So how do we do that? Well, we we first, from an influence position, is get some leverage on them and find out that, you know, for let have them realize that, oh, maybe there are some areas in my life that I could focus on that that will bring me more fulfillment, that this is not sustainable. And we do a little future pacing to, you know, bring the bottom up.

Dug McGuirk: 43:02

Say, look, if you keep doing this at this pace, what's gonna happen? Look at so and so who, you know, they burnt out. They had this and get them to go, oh, right. Because the goal is to get them to buy in to the transformation that will bring them the joy and the fulfillment that they really want. Because the truth is is that even though someone is high achieving and they're doing that, they're thinking they're doing it for freedom, but what they've actually created is a cage.

Dug McGuirk: 43:29

Because now they're stuck. Because if I don't keep doing what I'm doing, then I'm not gonna have the money that I think is gonna make me this whole vicious cycle happens, and then they end up dying of a heart attack because they never gave themselves a break or they get divorced or their kids, they they they you know, the cat in the cradle. Like, they they they end up missing out on what they really want. So a lot of the work, like, when when we do events, so if it's with Heidi and I as a matter of fact, you know, my wife Heidi we have test to help someone figure out what are some of their attachment archetypes that are running, that are getting stuck in that and how they're interrupting the experience of fulfillment.

Heidi: 44:11

Well, and it's and just to to comment on that really quick, I I think, yeah, you're you're so spot on because I think what ends up happening is sometimes work is so much more controllable. I mean, even though it can be stressful and there can be a lot, it's like, I can control this. Mhmm. But when you go home or with your relationship or your kids, especially teenagers, there are times it's like, you know what? I'm I'm gonna sit here and continue doing this tax return because this is way easier than dealing with that.

Heidi: 44:40

But but it is a it's an it's an avoidance.

Dug McGuirk: 44:42

Yeah. Well and and there's there there are these eight patterns that we will run to that worked in some area of our life. And control is one of the is one of them. Like, there's some people who gotta control everything because if they don't control it, then nothing is in control. And then, like, their biggest need is is to micromanage, and you see that in in leadership.

Dug McGuirk: 45:05

You know, that tyrant who's gotta micromanage everything, who's gotta you know, it's gotta be done a certain way, and and, you know, they they can't delegate, and, you know, delegation is one of the most valuable resources we have. But if you can't delegate because you gotta control everything, now you're stressed out. As soon as you try and delegate, now you gotta do your own stuff and follow-up on the person that you just delegated to because you gotta make sure they do it the way you think it should be done, and then, again, it just goes right? And that's We have these patterns that we run and we're like a dysfunctional family. All businesses run like dysfunctional families as well.

Dug McGuirk: 45:41

So depending on what I also went to to your question, I also learn from the person what is their strategy to avoid pain. There's so

Heidi: 45:53

much to unpack with that. Yeah. So taking that over into looking at how we succeed as professionals and how we evolve. One thing that you have done is you've continually reinvented yourself. And it's one thing that Julio, founder of ETS, and you you and Julio have become dear friends.

Heidi: 46:13

Julio, I've said it before in this podcast too. He's always said, we're not gonna be the next blockbuster. We're not gonna be the next, you know, whatever was amazing and now gone. That ability to adjust and to reinvent ourselves is so paramount to success. Mhmm.

Heidi: 46:30

And that does come back to that control mechanism and really how we look at that whole holistic person that we are. Because what we're seeing, specifically if I diverge over to our accounting industry, there is kind of this older process of how things have run, and it is very you know, I have to control this thing. And now there's so much change and movement with technology and AI. And, I mean, ever like you said earlier, you're working for that company, then Google marketing completely upended itself. I mean, you know, we're seeing that with AI.

Heidi: 47:03

We're seeing it now. Like, everything is changing, and it feels like it's more rapid than ever

Dug McGuirk: 47:09

It is.

Heidi: 47:10

With AI. So shifting into how business leaders really understand kind of how we and you've got this neuro linguistic programming expertise. How do we create that shift to really understanding how can we continue to reinvent ourselves, and what are the best tools for helping business owners continue to do that every day? It's really hard. It's it's easier to just continue doing what we've been doing.

Dug McGuirk: 47:40

Well, yeah. It appears easier. Yes. In a in a world of chaos, you know, that can sometimes feel like see, things are there's no such thing as a comfort zone. There's the familiar zone.

Heidi: 47:54

Yeah. There you go.

Dug McGuirk: 47:55

So people like, you know, the if you've ever heard, you know, that's always the way we've done it. That's, you know, that's a death sentence. And then, you know, I I usually ask this question to people at an event, and I'll ask this. I'll say, what are the three three what's the three word sentence that stops all opportunity for growth, all transformation, all like, that's on the other side. What's on the other side of you, don't you say these these three words in a sentence that everything you could ever want is on the other side.

Dug McGuirk: 48:30

What do you think that three word in English, three word sentences?

Heidi: 48:33

Jeez. I have no idea. I mean, but the thing that kills me is when my team's it's not three word. My team say, well, that's the way we've always done it. I mean, that that's the one that kills me,

Dug McGuirk: 48:42

but So this is an extension of that. And this is the sentence.

Heidi: 48:48

Okay. Give it to me.

Dug McGuirk: 48:49

Know that. This is the way we've always done it. This is what I know. I know that. I know what to do.

Dug McGuirk: 49:00

I don't so in life, you know, there's the old saying no pain, no gain, no risk, no reward. Trying something new is scary, is risky, is painful. So to your point, someone will say, well, this is always the way we've done it because they haven't been able to create that paradigm shift in looking at another way to do it. So the way I have a model, it's called, you know, to make things pop. And what that means is that pop is purpose over process.

Dug McGuirk: 49:37

When we're purpose driven, it doesn't matter how we get it done morally, ethically, and legally. One of the things, and you experienced this, so ETS is a great example. You deal with this all the time with accountants who that's the way you do it, and their mindset is a certain thing. They accomplish certain goals. Their purpose is a certain thing, so they they do it that way, that's why it's so resistant as well.

Dug McGuirk: 50:03

This is this is this is the rub because what you're doing is outside the box thinking, creative tax mitigating strategies Yep. Which are all legal, moral, ethical. They're all what all the the the people who get the results get because they're willing to do the things that people do morally, ethically, legally to get those results. But it seems when it's outside of your comfort zone, then you go, like, I don't wanna deal with it. I don't want to.

Dug McGuirk: 50:32

This is new to me. Oh, it's gonna be uncomfortable. But what's interesting, I'm sure the analogy may work, if you talk to some of the accountants that you converted, who are like, oh, wow. This really works. I'll back up.

Dug McGuirk: 50:44

Here's a story that that perhaps some can resonate with. So when we finally ended up living here in Florida, and like that's where we're gonna live, and I'm no longer on the road and all of that, I'm like, I always wanted to get into real estate investing. So I come home one day, and I'm like, that's it. I'm doing it. So I I say to my to Heidi, my wife, and I I was like, honey, we're gonna we're gonna buy an investment property.

Dug McGuirk: 51:06

And she goes, another mortgage? Like That's amazing.

Heidi: 51:12

And I I had the pleasure of meeting Heidi. I love her to death, so I can see her saying that.

Dug McGuirk: 51:17

Yeah. Yeah. And she's like, we're gonna go into more debt? And I'm like, well, yeah. But no, but this is good debt, honey.

Dug McGuirk: 51:21

You know, like because she's like, what debt is good? I'm like, well, because like we're gonna get some benefits from this, and the tenant is gonna pay the mortgage. So for her, that was very scary, very risky. And in order for you and I and then everyone listening to succeed in anything that we have someone who might be resistant is we need to have more confidence and belief in what we're doing and ourselves than the person that we're sitting across from has fear in it. And the challenge sometimes is we have experienced that pushback.

Dug McGuirk: 52:00

And by the way, we could be we we could either be a convert, maybe, you know, you share you were a CPA and then to convert into, know, what you're doing now, that was that was a big shift. So and we also have other people who whisper, you know, things, not intentionally. I remember when I I told my mom, was like I was like, hey, mom. You know, we're gonna get our our first investment property. And she's like, you remember your father and I, we had that property in Hempstead, and oh my goodness, you know, the the floors got ruined and we had all blah blah blah, and it was like $5,000 I mean, was such it was so difficult.

Dug McGuirk: 52:35

Mhmm. Good luck with that.

Heidi: 52:37

Yep. It was like, you're

Dug McGuirk: 52:39

not helping here. Right? But I was like, I'm I'm doing it anyway and and all that. But it's that it is having that paradigm shift of of what is the reason. So the to to kinda come back to what we originally talked about about being sober, create a a life worth being sober for

Heidi: 52:56

Mhmm.

Dug McGuirk: 52:56

Create a business worth stretching for, worth, you know, like trying new things and be willing that the the purpose of the business is that. How we get there is gonna change. Like and as an example, I love using the GPS, you know, using technology as the example. In order for the GPS to work, what what information besides the map and all of that, what information does it need to be given? The destination.

Dug McGuirk: 53:24

Yeah. The destination, it needs to know where you are. Right? So these are two really important pieces of information. Now, let's say you're on the way and then there's a road a roadblock.

Dug McGuirk: 53:35

The road's closed. Or now dynamic one's up. All of a sudden, there's a traffic jam. What does it do?

Heidi: 53:41

Well, it depends. Sometimes it just keeps telling you to go that way and you turn around and it says make a u-turn. Make a u-turn. Turn around.

Dug McGuirk: 53:49

Okay. So that that's a a one in an old program. What do the new pro news do?

Heidi: 53:54

Well, if it knows there's a roadblock, it will reroute.

Dug McGuirk: 53:57

It reroutes. Yes. It finds another way.

Heidi: 54:00

Yes. Now does it complain? Nope. It just readjusts.

Dug McGuirk: 54:07

Yeah. Just readjusts and it doesn't go, we're never gonna get there. All is lost. Right? It goes, oh, no.

Dug McGuirk: 54:13

Okay. Here here's a new thing to to to go. Okay. Go this way or go that way. Or sometimes even I know in in in Waze, which I love to use, it'll give you the three options.

Dug McGuirk: 54:24

Like, you go this way. It's gonna take this long. You go this way, there'll be no toll to you this way, or you could go this way. Yep. Yep.

Dug McGuirk: 54:31

When we change our relationship with the process, meaning that we're more flexible with our process, but super focused on our purpose, then we can embrace the tools, the changes that come in. There are tons of people who are I mean, I was out to dinner last night, a friend of mine said, and I don't know if this is accurate, he said, like, 90% of people don't use AI consciously. We can't avoid like, AI is everywhere. Like, it's been it's been everywhere for for decades. It's just now it's it's in people's hands in a different way.

Dug McGuirk: 55:04

Mhmm. That number's gotta be, like, inaccurate. But point being is that the people who are going to succeed when new technologies come out are the ones that don't resist it, the ones who embrace it, who go, oh, okay. Yes. We always did it this way, and now we could do it this way.

Dug McGuirk: 55:23

And I dealt with that in the music industry, the, like, Pro Tools and all that came in, and I was I was a mid adopter. I still like doing it the old way, and there's part of me that resisted because I gotta learn something new and all that. I ended up learning it and it was fine, but they were people who were right on it. As soon as that technology came, they were all over it and they were crushing it because they were focused on making the music, not how it was done. And then one of the things that was really interesting when it came to music is they use the Beatles as the example.

Dug McGuirk: 55:54

So a friend of mine said, let me ask you something. You like the Beatles. Right? He's like, well, I mean, I guess I I wasn't really a big fan, but, yeah, I know who the Beatles are. And he goes, well, you know that if this technology was available to the Beatles, they would have been all over it.

Dug McGuirk: 56:10

Mhmm. Because what they were using at the time was the most cutting edge, and they were trying new things in their experiment. And Led Zeppelin, same thing. Like, they were using the technology available, the best of the technology, and then found ways to use that. They didn't get upset because there was this new technology.

Dug McGuirk: 56:28

They got excited by it.

Heidi: 56:30

So with Absolutely. I mean, it's about again, this day and age, it's about prioritizing and embracing change. And that can be such a difficult thing for some people. To that point, one of the things you focus on is training people to break through fear. And you do some really cool exercises in your programs to overcome fear.

Heidi: 56:50

Because I I think fear is a big one for people when embracing change and technology and all the stuff that's happening. So give us something, you know, or the audience, a mindset shift that can really help people make that leap, you know, take that leap of faith into being more open to embracing those technology changes and overcoming the fear. Well, I

Dug McGuirk: 57:16

would ask someone who is is struggling with that. Maybe it's not fear. Maybe it's just a little bit of stress. Yep. Some people don't like to say they have fear, but they're stressed.

Dug McGuirk: 57:26

And then if you continue to ask them, well, what are you stressed about? And say, why is that stressful? Why is that stressful? And then finally, they'll say, because I'm afraid that x will happen.

Heidi: 57:35

But

Dug McGuirk: 57:36

what I I would offer to anyone who's feeling like overwhelmed or stressed out or, you know, like the change that's occurring is scary and and overwhelming, just think back to a time in the past that you did overcome something, that there was situations in your life that were scary, that were overwhelming. And now, as you look back, there's probably a couple thoughts that go back. They'll come up for you. One is, you'll probably, if you're honest, go, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Yeah.

Dug McGuirk: 58:15

That the fear that I was putting in my body was not what it really was, that it it it was never as as painful or crazy as it was. And then the other thing that I I challenge I I don't hear I mean, I've never experienced someone say this isn't the case is that they look back at some of those challenges, those pains, those experiences, And then now they go, you know what? If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be who I am. I wouldn't be where I am. And I'm actually grateful for that.

Dug McGuirk: 58:46

That at the time, yes, it sucked. However, as I think back and I look at the the path of my life, had that not happened, I wouldn't have all this other joy, all this amazing experience, all these things that I could give, all these ways I could help other people. So there's that old saying, you know, what's this? Like, when we look back, like, we could laugh. Like, we're gonna look back and we're gonna laugh at this.

Dug McGuirk: 59:09

Have you have you ever said that?

Heidi: 59:10

Yep. Oh, yeah.

Dug McGuirk: 59:11

Yeah. So why wait? Like, why wait? Whenever you find yourself asked that question, like, what you know, let's imagine, you know, like, what could be funny about what's funny about this? What could be funny about this?

Dug McGuirk: 59:22

If I wanted to be grateful right now for this growth opportunity, what could I be grateful for?

Heidi: 59:27

Yep. It's incredible because I have so many examples of that in my life and family members' lives and other people I know who have gone through things none of us would wish or hope on anybody, but yet have have actually turned out to be really incredible growth opportunities, have changed and shifted the trajectory trajectory of people's lives, and truly made a positive shift. And it's Yeah. Oftentimes going through the really difficult things. And I I really appreciate the insights, the motivation.

Heidi: 59:58

For professionals who want to connect with you, you do these breakthrough experiences. You do public speaking. I already have some events I wanna recommend because I think there's some fantastic events it would be neat to have you at. How can people learn more about your work and your breakthrough experiences, and where's the best place to find you?

Dug McGuirk: 01:00:15

Well, LinkedIn is always great. That's a place where so many people who are looking to connect with others. So, LinkedIn, it's doctor Doug, d r d u g. I'm a doctoral candidate. And then there's a couple of things.

Dug McGuirk: 01:00:27

So there's a gift I can I can give to if some of this I didn't go we didn't go over the archetype patterns, but there are these patterns, and and if you go to archetypebreakthrough, archetype breakthrough Com, there's a free quiz there that you can take, and it it just answer you just answer a few questions to and it's something, you know, it's Heidi's brainchild, but it's it's from the work that we did, you know, working with with thousands of people and and noticing these patterns that help you go, oh, okay. This this is once you notice the pattern and you can relate to it, then you could go, oh, I could do something about it. Right? But sometimes just having awareness. Right?

Dug McGuirk: 01:01:03

The the the best con the best oh, what's the word I'm looking for? I'm drawing a blank. But it's sunlight. Awareness. Right?

Dug McGuirk: 01:01:09

Awareness can be curative. So, you know, the sun will sterilize. Right? So we can but just by, like, the best antiseptic is sunlight. So that that's really helpful.

Dug McGuirk: 01:01:19

So you could go to archetype breakthrough. And then if you're interested in what we were sharing early around those experiences, the legendary customerexperience.com is where you could learn more about these events, these ways to and and by the way, customers for business owners, who who are more important? Your internal customers or your external customers?

Heidi: 01:01:40

Typically, internal.

Dug McGuirk: 01:01:42

Yeah. Always. Mhmm. Right? Because and people forget that.

Heidi: 01:01:45

Mhmm.

Dug McGuirk: 01:01:46

But when our staff is operating on all cylinders, when we're functioning you know, I I use the example, like, you know, if you got all the money in the world, what car would you have? And people always say things like Lambo or Ferrari, Maserati, Bugatti, all these things. And I'll ask, would you put gas that's been sitting for fifty years with the cha ching cha ching cha ching in that car? And everyone inevitably says, no way. Right?

Dug McGuirk: 01:02:11

And I was like, well, why not? Because if I do, it's gonna run like crap. Well, same is true for us. So when we're having bad days, then we could sometimes make some not so great decisions. But when we're feeling great, when we're feeling positive, empowered, confident, then we make better decisions.

Dug McGuirk: 01:02:26

So that's what the legendary customer experience is about, is about your internal and external customers. There's a whole thing around sales and all that. We could talk at another time around it, but the meaning, like, the the philosophy behind it and how how it can help sales companies. And we have talked about it before, and I think and hopefully, the same challenge that I think you've experienced with CPAs who've always done it the way they've done it, and then you experienced what we did at at our event together, they're like, oh, I think you probably got it a little more Yeah. After going through it and and seeing the value.

Heidi: 01:02:59

But Absolutely. Yeah.

Dug McGuirk: 01:03:00

Yeah.

Heidi: 01:03:00

No. I mean, your events are are so interesting because they are really fun. You do some really exciting hands on, you know, I wouldn't call them experiments, but experiences. Mhmm. And and they also have a really deep thoughtful aspect to them, which is almost a little unexpected, but it does really open up.

Heidi: 01:03:19

You also require a little vulnerability with sharing with people in small groups, and it does create the ability to really connect people at a deeper level as well. So I really appreciate that, and I think what you're doing is is really cool. And the messages that you share with professionals and business owners is I know it's been impactful for our company, and we're we're both members of CEO Life. And we had an annual event there with CEO Life, and that was wonderful with the members of that group as well. So, Doug, I'm so appreciative for your your time and for your knowledge and sharing these things.

Heidi: 01:03:54

There's so much. I feel like we could talk for hours. Yeah. I will share all of the links in the show notes so people have access to what you're doing and what you're sharing. But before we sign off, any final thoughts or comments?

Dug McGuirk: 01:04:05

No. I guess the the the last piece of this and and that I would challenge people to and and the work that we do that's it's embedded and sometimes sometimes with is is re presenting yourself to whatever your relationship is with your higher power, whatever it is, the beyond, the the the the experience that there are very little words for. And as long as we are we we could maintain that relationship and be present with that, we can overcome anything and everything. We don't have to reach for a bottle or reach for the internet or reach for whatever. We could just, you know, connect from within, experience without, and that will change everything.

Heidi: 01:04:47

Wow. That is beautiful. That is very beautifully said. Well, thank you again so much for being a guest on the show, and

Dug McGuirk: 01:04:53

I hope

Heidi: 01:04:54

you enjoyed it. And we'll talk again soon.

Dug McGuirk: 01:04:57

Right on. God bless.

Heidi: 01:04:58

Wow. What an amazing conversation with Doug McGirk. His insights on reinvention and peak performance and persistence are incredibly valuable, especially in today's fast changing business environment. We explored how to connect and be persistent for powerful business relationships and what it really takes to break through limitations and step into your higher power. Doug also shared his experiences with Tony Robbins and his game changing mindset strategies for navigating risk and uncertainty.

Heidi: 01:05:26

If today's conversation resonated with you, make sure to check out Doug's work, his events, and his coaching. This is someone you definitely want in your network. And to all of our listeners, if you enjoyed today's episode, please be sure to subscribe, rate, and share the podcast with friends, colleagues, and fellow professionals who would benefit from these insights. All of the links mentioned in today's show will be in the show notes. And, again, we're sponsored by Engineered Tax Services.

Heidi: 01:05:53

Thank you for tuning in to the Healthy, Wealthy, and Wise Accountant. I will see you next time.